Thursday, November 01, 2007

Maybe they'll put pretty lights on the wall between Mexico and Texas too

Today in Berlin, a reminder of the past, and possibly the future, goes on display.


Fox said...

Are you comparing the Berlin wall to a fence between Mexico and Texas?

The Berlin wall kept East Germans captive, not letting them GET OUT. A Texas/Mexcio border fence would keep non-citizens from COMING IN illegally.

I think it's silly when people trot out the Berlin wall to make an argument against a border fence.

The Fire Next Time said...

I think it's silly when people talk about things they don't know anything about, like communism or border fences.

The Fire Next Time said...

or the "free market," for that matter.

Tom Drew said...

Okay, this isn't an issue that I know very much about, and nor is it something I feel personally close to. But...

I don't think we can ignore the symbolic power of constructing a fence or wall between two nations, and we can thank the Berlin Wall for that. For a country such as ours - populated by people who go around practically jerking off to the flag and eagles and ribbons on cars - to propose something like this seemingly without regard for its symbolic potential just blows my mind.

Furthermore, doesn't it seem profoundly un-American to be building walls to keep people out? What about all that "land of opportunity" and "this land was made for you and me" stuff? Isn't welcoming people, and providing resources and opportunities for them, a core American value?

The Fire Next Time said...

Well, Tom, what you seem to forget is that all the suburban white people that live here now magically sprang from the soil. So they have claim to the land that no one else does. They claim it for Jesus. Cuz, you know, he was white too. Probably from St. Louis.

Fox said...

A fence is needed b/c no other piece of legislation or enforcement is doing the job. When cities or states attempt to crack down on employers for hiring illegals, an appeals court or federal court overturns it. I wasn't for a fence initially, but I see no other solution.

Now, if you don't think roughly 750,000 - 1 million illegals coming into our country annually (and that # is increases each year) - that receive free healthcare, free tax payer supported resources, overcrowd schools whose resources are already stretched, lower wages for American workers, bring in new strains of stapholococcus, commit murder, deal drugs, don't pay income tax, don't assimilate, and on and on an on - is a problem then I guess you would be against enforcement and against a fence. (just curious? Tom, do you think we should do something - anything? - about illegal immigration?)

And you're right Tom, it IS a land of opportunity, and I think the feds need to make the legalization process swifter b/c we NEED the labor and innovation of immigrants from Mexico, India, China, Uzbekistan etc.

Most people that speak out for a fence or stricter enforcement are not against immigration, they are against ILLEGAL immigration. Americans want people to come here and join us, not leach off us.

As for symbolic potential, I agree it's an eye sore, and I wish we didn't need it, but I don't think it's unAmerican or inhumane at all. I think it's a different world and sometimes the solutions we need aren't always the solutions we wish we could have.

I'm very open - and willing to get behind - a better solution to illegal immigration. If somebody knows of one I would love to hear it.

Tom Drew said...

I'm sure we should do something, but like I said, I'm no expert and I'm not gonna start conjuring up ideas. I just think there's gotta be a better solution than building a wall.

Of course people in government who want a wall don't want to give free healthcare to illegal immigrants - they scoff at free healthcare for anyone! And the same is true of issues with education and labor. Our government pussyfoots around and would gladly screw us all over regardless of whether people are coming into the country illegally. I'm not even gonna comment on the murderers and drug dealers. That's just fear-mongering. (Even more so than a lot of the other issues here.)

A huge McDonalds hat on the Statue of Liberty would be an "eye sore." Putting a wall between here and Mexico would be a further blight on our standing in the international community, and I'm wondering how much more of that this country can take.